David Bender with Elie Wiesel: Living in the Present

In some ways, words such as Holocaust, Genocide, racism, etc., like drugs after a certain period of time no longer are effective and people have a tendency to keep using them long after their potency is no longer there. Racism is still alive in America; however, many people are tired that many blacks are using racist remarks against whites and other groups and not being held accoutable for them. One of these days, you might get a Morris Dee of the Southern Poverty Law Centerwho would not hestitate to go after the NCAAP and other minority organziations including churches because they were not going a thing to stop this reverse racism.

Oh, I forgot to leave the link on my blog for the David Duke running for President in 2012 Thread. It should make for some interesting reading and give a few laughts. I know from the stats that other political forums have linked to my blog so I guess Progressives, Conservatives and others are enjoying reading the comments from someone who is fighting David Duke with knowledge of him personally and their White Nationalist hate.

I took all of his 6 points that he has mentioned and commented on them plus I am taking comments from his supporters that I find interesting.

Here is the last comment I added today from Ivan on VNN and my coments to him. For Those who do not know VNN is even more extreme than Stormfront.

chrisy58 Says:
” He is politically shrewd, he knows how to run successful political campaigns, he has the experience. ” ( Ivan from VNN)

Yes, I agree with you that he is one of the most politically shrewd men I have ever met and he does have the experience, knowledge and ambition.

“He has international clout – he is known oversees probably more than in the US due to his books translated into many languages, including many non-European languages. It warms my heart to see him pop-up in Ukraine, Russia, Iran, Arab states. He is in his prime. The time is right and will be even more so in the coming months.” (Ivan from VNN)

Yes, David does have international clout, he is known and respected by those who share his political views and his speaking many languages is a big help in speaking directly to other heads of State. Yes, he is still in his prime. 60 is not to old to run for President. He keeps himself in good shape and is in better health than many men who are younger than him. I also agree that the time in America is ripe for him to get his message out and run a grass roots campaign.

The question is will you White Nationalists do what is needed and work your heart and soul out to make sure that his message gets out in other forms of media besides the main stream media, which you know will bring up all his past from the time he was 18 and dressed in his nazi uniform protesting the Democratic convention in 1968. They will bring up his Klan history and his books etc. In order for your message to get out you will have to work hard and try other forms of media and do the leg work to get his message out door to door, etc.

Will you White Nationalists donate every month enough money so that he can justify getting matching federal funds. Will you White Nationalists listen to his advice or will you go off on your own and hurt him by doing crazy stunts that will turn the average American teabagger off to his message. Sometimes as Don Black who is also very shrewd about American Politics has said you guys are your own worst enemies and their is great danger that those of you who support him could hurt him because you do stupid things!!!!! You turn some of the greatest minds away because they don’t want to be involved with the nuts, criminals, women haters, Catholic haters, clowns in nazi uniforms and white sheets, and hating Jews, Blacks, Mexicans, and White Liberals.

He is one of the best debaters I have seen and I am not to worried about him not handling himself in a debate with a Progressive who is just as intelligent on the issues and who shares his debating skills. If they were to have a real debate it would be very interesting, educational and could either hurt or help you depending on how well prepared the Progressive candidate is. I don’t think Progressives are scared that David Duke is considering running but would welcome the news and look forward to running against him.

” David Duke is in the same league as the giants like Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh, William Dudley Pelley, George Lincoln Rockwell, and Dr William Pierce. No one among the living today has identified the main problem of America (and the world at large) with more clarity and straightforwardly than David Duke did.” ( Ivan from VNN)

Some of the names you mentioned if Duke is smart, which I know he is would hurt him. Get away from the George Lincoln Rockwell the nazi and Dr. William Pierce who founded the NA. To the average American they would scare them to the point that even Republicans would vote for President Obama.

I am not going to say who he should name as people who the American people would respond too. I know that if I was on the campaign against David Duke I would rejoice at your choice of bringing nazis, the NA founder or anything to do with the KKK. That would be like Christmas morning and getting the nice arab horse that you wanted and be a great celebration. Progressives would make cake of some of your choices there.

I also know who he could mention that would cause me as a Progressive to worry because they would touch a heart with White Republicans who are afraid and worried about the future of this nation. Again, I am not going to name a few examples and help him. He will have to come up with his own plan on how to best run.

” I would love to see Duke-Miller ticket. That would be a revolution on the scale of Third Reich, only not limited to America. That would be a worldwide revolution.” ( Ivan from VNN)

Again that would be a big mistake. Knowing David and other White Nationalists who have political knowledge and know politics in America they are not going to join themselves and even think for one minute of a Duke/Miller Ticket. That would be sucide for his campaign.

Again, there are better qualified people who if he is smart and decides to run that he should consider.

“Elie Wiesel and the Question of Palestine”
Tikkun vol 17 number 6 maybe online at tikkun.org
Mark Chmiel
also book Elie Wiesel and The Politics of Moral Leadership (Temple University Press, 2001)
may not be in print due to Israel academic and cultural lobby pressure like what almost suppressed Joel Kovel book Overcoming Zionism that still cost Kovel his job at Bard College due to same controversy startup that Bard feared could cut enrollment and donations. ADL did recommend Jewish students not attend UC-Irvine (boycott divestment sanction tactic).

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025

Ahmedinejad’s ‘threat’ to “wipe Israel off the map” is a mistranslation. He meant regime occupying Jerusalem should vanish from the pages of time a clear reference to an imperative for a two state solution that ends Israeli occupation and apartheid in the West Bank. Needed as well is a reunification of the West Bank and Gaza separate goverments instead of the current divided and conquered as well as occupied status of Palestinians.
Israel and her citizen-lobbyists should stop trying to always claim the victim position in conflict with someone, if not greater victim compared to Palestinians, than greater victim to Arabs or Muslims to conflate ‘enemies of Israel’ with non-Arab Iranians. Stop the ‘delay and blame Palestinians for the delay’ game and negotiate a two state solution that is compliant with international law (ICJ decisions and UN resolutions and 1949 Geneva conventions). As a Jew with relatives living in Israel (and I hate the ‘need’ to disclose that as if my position on the Israel-Palestinian conflict isn’t morally justified enough without ‘skin in the game,’) I don’t and won’t stand with Israel’s self defense if they bomb Iranian nuclear reactors as I didn’t stand with Israel’s illegitimate self defense in 2006 (Lebanon and Gaza) and 2008-9 (Gaza). Bombing Iranian nuclear reactors is NOT legitimate self defense. Israel already has a 200 bomb nuclear arsenal that Mordechai Vanunu leaked and gave his freedom of movement for (jail and house arrest with restricted meeting with people reminiscent of apartheid South African ‘banning’ rules.) At least Israel hasn’t banned the name Vanunu from being printed in its media.
Although I do sympathize with Gilad Shalit’s family for their ordeal and believe he should be freed and the Red Cross should be allowed visits and intermediary communication as they may or may not between the 9,000 Palestinian prisoners, some minors, in Israeli jails. He was put into a bad position by an occupying army that wasn’t allowing enough open borders for export dependent Gaza farmers. At least Israel should allow rebuilding Gaza airport near Rafah with passenger service to only Cairo and Amman for passenger security assurance.

G writes: “Racism is still alive in America; however, many people are tired that many blacks are using racist remarks against whites and other groups and not being held accoutable for them.”

G, since I will probably disturb NR (and perhaps others) w/my previous comments, where I disagreed w/much of what Elie Wiesel said (I Know it is arrogant, but I have to stand by what I believe) – well, I will now probably offend/upset You, as well, but here is my take, on what you wrote on “reverse racism”:

Yes, it exists. But the terrible legacy of slavery still exists, as well, and is stronger than reverse racism. Regular racism, from slavery, is stronger. No form of racism is acceptable, but we can see that most poor people are people of African American descent.

Where I work, there is not One black person, Not One, and it’s a very big organization.

Imagine if the reverse were true: it would be really Strange to people.

Only in an inner city – where poverty is rampant – would it not be considered strange that have no white people working in an organization.

So, G, I don’t even know if “reverse racism” is true, because, to Be racist, you have to be in a position of power, and blacks and other people of color, as a whole, and in general, are Not in that position.

For the individual who gets beat up on by blacks (such as Mike’s guest of last week, the man who Was a skinhead and transcended that, much to his credit), the hatred of some black people toward whites is very painful and awful, no doubt about it.

But, overall, I stand by what I write. Racism against people of color is Much more prevalent and strong than reverse racism.

In addition to slavery, the deliberate program to exterminate the Native Americans, undertaken by the US govt. in previous times (the horrible legacy of which is still felt and reverberates for Native Americans today) is surely also on par with the Holocaust in terms of sheer brutality, and genocide.

Mara, a few years ago, there was a lawsuit filed by some white people in Georgia for reverse discriminations because some high ranking black police officer was caught on a tape recorder stating that those white people will not be promoted to captain because they were white.

One of the Atlanta newspapers (I can’t recall which one) ran the story. I went to the newspaper website to read the story and the comment section regarding the article. Many Afro-Americans stated that their cities and counties were “chocolate” (Afro-American), and that they were determine to keep it that way. Sounds like reverse discrmination to me. I would not be surprise if they have their own unwritten Jim Crowism using the legal law to keep their places pre-dominately black. For example, if I want to move into a nice residence neighborhood that was overwhelming Afro-American, if the bank manager or loan officer were Afro-Americans could red lined me by manipulating my income and credit score like Wall Street did, then I could not get the loan to buy the house. They could have all the legal law on their side, and there be no way I could prove that they discrminate against me unless I could get a hold of the bank’s records to show that there was a systemic pattern of discrminating against whites and other miniorities.

I agree with you about inner city poverty being overhelmingly minority. However, if you look at the Appalachian Mountain region, the poverty level is just as bad if not worse, and the population is overhelmingly white. Of course, they wouldn’t be poor if the state, county, and city governments were not in the hands of corporations.

Some areas of my organization which is also very big is dominated by minorities. One area of my organization is located in Los Angeles where there is constant warfare between the blacks and the Hispanics where both sides accuse each other of racism, discrimination and filing lawsuits. It is a microversion of what is happening in Los Angeles City and County where even black criminals and ganga are stating that they are being forced out by Hispanic criminals. So yes, in my orgainzation reverse discrimination is alive and well.

I am posting this here because I told Garfield he should come and listen to this interview. And since his comment is very much in line with the topic it might bring for some interesting conversion if he decides to come and listen or comment.

Garfields comment on my blog regarding an article I had posted.

Garfield Says:
The Obama administration appears to be standing by its decision to boycott the World Conference Against Racism next week in Geneva, despite efforts to focus and tone down language in a draft conference document viewed as hostile toward Israel.

Did you expect any other action from the ZOG occupied government of Obama? The downfall of the US will be from the jews, perhaps the aggression from states like Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan seem appropriate to balance the scale of influence of the jews within the US.

Its sad that US soldiers die as ‘patriots and heros, while Palestinian women and children die a ‘collateral damage and terrorists’. I hope Obama has upped the production of body bags.

—————-

My comment in response.

chrisy58 Says:
” Did you expect any other action from the ZOG occupied government of Obama? The downfall of the US will be from the jews, perhaps the aggression from states like Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan seem appropriate to balance the scale of influence of the jews within the US.” (Garfield said)

Garfield, I listened to a wonderful interview yesterday on Ring of Fire which I wish I could post here for you to listen to but I can’t. David Bender interviewed Nobel Peace Prize-winner Elie Wiesel who wrote the book night and talked about many topics of interest to me and even inspired me with how his experience in a Nazi concentration camp during World War II inspired his activist work over the last 60 years. If you go to the site you could listen to part of the interview.

My question for you Garfield is will you listen with an open mind? Will you as a dedicated White Nationalist who supports the President of Iran in achieving his goals really listen to the point of understanding that you White Nationalists are playing with fire. Yes, the radical Muslims agree and share your goals of destroying the United States and Israel off the face of the earth because of your hate toward Jews and for us supporting the state of Israel?

I know the enemy of my enemy is my friend and like Hitler who made pacts with the Muslims during his reign of power in Nazi Germany because of that common hate toward the Jewish people. I know you White Nationalists taught me that the Jews were a race, but thinking about it, I don’t think they are a race but a religion like Catholic, Muslim, Pagan, Protestant etc religions. I have to remember to stop thinking of White Jewish people as a seperate race from me. All races can believe in the Jewish religion. I will try harder not to use the term Jewish race any longer because I think that that is just left over brainwashing.

Do you really trust the President of Iran and the other radical Muslims not to turn on you White Nationalists after they have used you to achieve their goal of the destruction of the WEST and ISRAEL? Do you really think that they would let White Nationalists who do not convert to their RADICAL MUSLIM FAITH that believes that if one doesn’t convert that they must be killed? You don’t believe in a GOD so in their eyes you are worst than a Christian who believes in some GOD. I know your brother converted to the faith to marry the woman he loves, but do you know what they do to Muslims who convert to the Christian faith? They kill them.

Yes, you share the common goal and I do understand that many of you know that by joining and working together toward your common goal that you will be in a better chance to gain the political power to bring into reality your vision for the world. I do understand that it is actually your best shot of getting the political power you want. To not be working to gain political power for White Nationalists is a waste of time and energy as John Tyndale pointed out at the 2004 Euro Conference. His speech was powerful and motivated everyone there who was there. Gathered there was the best of the White Nationalists. Garfield the enemy of my enemy is not always your friend either.

One of the biggest problems you White Nationalists have that are smart, shrewd, and like David Duke, Don Black and others who I have met is that one of your biggest hurdles is controling some of those within your own ranks. Don Black has said it time and time again, but I don’t think a lot of you guys understand what he is saying. Your Cause is full of nuts, criminals, loosers, women haters, Catholic haters, clowns in nazi uniforms and white sheets, people who think armed and violent revolution over working to gain political power on the world stage, and wrapping yourselves in symbols of the Third Reich that FAILED. You do not always attract the best and the brightest because of the stupid idiots who say they support your Cause and quality leaders like David Duke and Don Black, but don’t listen but go their own way and do STUPID IDIOT STUNTS that normal Americans are turned off by.

Yes, the American teabaggers are angy and the climate in American politics is that they will listen to your message. Yet, if you can’t control the idiots than whatever gains you made will be lost in an instant. Don’t think that Progressives won’t FIGHT BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They may have taken you guys for granted in the past, but the time is coming where they will not be laughing at your Cause and leaders as a BIG JOKE!!!!!! They will finally understand that to continue on the path of taken you guys for granted is the path to the fall of the United States and Israel. They are waking up to the truth that this is a WAR they are fighting for their very survival.

It is also true that David Duke has more international clout than clout in America. HE speaks many languages and can speak directly to heads of state. He is smart, well educated and has taught some of the brightest future political leaders in Russia, Europe, and America. When he speaks to people in the radical Muslim states and the ARAB world he is greated with cheers and support for what he is saying. They are listening to him.

We are living in interesting times Garfield, I do believe that David knows that the time is right for him to come back to the States and work on building a base of support from the tea baggers on top of the large base of support he already has. I do not write him off or any of the smart, bright young men I knew, worked with, and know that for much to long Progressives have allowed you guys to work under the radar. It won’t be easy, but if he can reign in the stupid idiots who do more harm than help him, and seperate himself from the nuts who don’t understand that Hitler would have wanted this generation of White Nationalists to toss out the third reich symbols etc and find a way to bring that same message of hate but packaged in a new way that this generation will respond to; then you guys will LOOSE!!!!!

We the United States of America and not zog. Garfield, even David Duke and Don Black know that to use the term zog hurts them. Why do you think that they are working so hard to educate you all not to fit into the image that the mainstream media and Progressives paint you as. You are not the trailor park trash who are stupid and marry your first cousains. You are not poor and are anything like what you see on the Jerry Springer show. Many of you are well educated Southern men who love your Southern heritiage and culture. Many of you have the income and means to support your cause with money, time, wisdom, and power. They love the Confederate flags and still believe in states rights over federal rights and talk of succession from the United States. Their love for the South is as strong as my love for the United States as one union.

I don’t know what is going to happen Garfield. But I do know that we must continue to support Israel in whatever why we can to make sure that she is not destroyed off the face of the earth like you and your Muslim friends desire and dream of.

Progressives know that what is happening to the people in Gaza and the West Bank is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One of the most honest and honorable Presidents Jimmy Carter spoke out and told the truth. He didn’t say what he said because he HATE ISRAEL or the Jewish people but because he knows that what is happening is inflaming the situation and not bringing the world any closer to finding a real and lasting peace.

Secretary of State Mrs. Clinton is not stupid and being that her husband was also President who had to deal with the situation; will hopefully in a loving way tell Israel that they are making some mistakes, but at the same time, we must understand why Israel is doing what they are doing. There is a head of state who has called for their destruction. They have to fight sucide bombers who attack their cities and their citizens die!!!!!!! Both sides have truth on their side. Yet, it seems that many people just harshly judge Israel and do not try and help her find a solution that will keep the citizens of Israel SAFE!!!!! What kind of nation would Israel be if it allowed its citizens to be killed, bombed, etc and did nothing to try and PROTECT their PEOPLE?

Right now, I feel that someone has to speak out for ISRAEL and it just happens to be us the United States. Someone has to speak out about ISRAEL’S right to exist and live in peace and safety. Yet, we must be firm and speak out against their actions that only hinder the goal of a lasting peace that is fair to all sides.

Yes, our brave troops are being killed. I am sure that no PRESIDENT wants to see American soldiers killed in battle. I am sure that no PRESIDENT wants to be the one to give the order to send the troops into battle knowing that our soldiers could be injured or killed. It should not be easy!!!!!

We are living in dangerous times. The battle is coming that we all know must be fought one day. The times are different the people are different but it is the same battle we fought in WWII of if we as a world are going to allow a whole group of people to be killed and wiped off the face of the earth because they are Jewish or because they support the Jewish State of ISRAEL!!!! In America it is the same battle that the North and South have been fighting since our creation of states rights vs federal rights. The issue is not slavery but do the states of the right to make their own Laws or do we as a federal government have the right to come into states who make laws that deny other Americans the same basic rights as White Americans. Our country is young compared to other nations in the world. Many times the issues that divide us come to play with each generation though many times in a different way.

Garfield, I do enjoy your comments and talking to you. You are smart, well educated and love your family. You only want what is best. We come from different nations and that has shaped us to be the people we are today. I have a better idea of what you are living under and I am glad you are moving to the UK and your children will be able to leave South Africa and have a chance for hopefully a better life. I want all children in the world to have a better life than our generation had. I think all generations want the next generation to have a better life than we did. I would hope that someday Jewish and Arab children would see the day when they can live at peace with each other side by side and not have to live in FEAR.

I am a Progressive because I believe that Progressives really do want to find a way for peace.

G, I’m thinking that both you and I are taking on some pretty controversial topics, here.

Hatred against people by other people seems to be as old as the hills….of Jerusalem, Africa, the Appalachians and just about everywhere on the face of the earth.

I’ve been thinking a lot about the Middle East, and I am very thankful for David Bender’s interview w/Elie Wiesel. It’s nice to hear David’s voice again, on RoF, and it’s also interesting to work out what all this means, for myself, as best I can.

The Daily Beast has an article, today, on how a solution, in the Middle East, will probably not come from either side of the conflict. The hatreds and wrongs – from Both sides – are too deeply entrenched.

Personally, I think Israel should have to give up the land they claimed, after the 6 day war of 1967. I also think the rights of Palestinians must be upheld, just as much as the rights of the Jewish people.

It’s really a question of basic, human rights. No one likes to be treated as if they are sub-human.

Just because a group has been oppressed does not necessarily mean, sadly, that they, in turn, will not also turn to oppressive tactics and cruel violence against the innocent.

Anti-semitism is very present in the world, today, just as racism is, and these are realities that Must be acknowledged.

The claims of white nationalism are anathema to me. They disgust me.

Still, the birth of Israel seems to have come about largely through religious claims, on the part of the Jewish people. Such claims should not, imo, supersede the claims of Palestinians, who have been living in that part of the world for centuries, as well.

It’s definitely complicated.

When Pres. Obama says that America is the friend of Israel, he should also say that America is the friend of the Palestinian people, as well.

“G, I’m thinking that both you and I are taking on some pretty controversial topics, here.”

I agree we are taking on controversial topics; however, at least we are not throwing insults at each other, and we tried to present out other viewpoints in a logical, rational matter based on our own experiences and from talking to other people. Furthermore, these topics eventually have to be talk about and resolve or else society can not move on to hopefully a more humane one. These topics can no longer be swept under the rug anymore nor should be swept under the rug.

One issue that disgust me is the inability to talk about a hidden racism which is class warfare in which the rich people and corporations is still discriminating against the working people in this country. No matter how hard they tried, the working people will never be view as equal partners in the political, social, and economic landscape of this country nor will be allow to become equal partners by rich people and corporations. The GOP just wants to keep it under wraps forever. This is one of the final frontiers that needs to be put out in the open and should be included in the American history books.

“Just because a group has been oppressed does not necessarily mean, sadly, that they, in turn, will not also turn to oppressive tactics and cruel violence against the innocent.”

I agree you, unfortunately, it is human nature to become an opressor once you stop being an opressed person/group and now you holding the reins of power. It is too bad we have been unable to find a way to control it.

Personally, I think Israel should have to give up the land they claimed, after the 6 day war of 1967. I also think the rights of Palestinians must be upheld, just as much as the rights of the Jewish people.

“It’s really a question of basic, human rights. No one likes to be treated as if they are sub-human.

The claims of white nationalism are anathema to me. They disgust me.

Still, the birth of Israel seems to have come about largely through religious claims, on the part of the Jewish people. Such claims should not, imo, supersede the claims of Palestinians, who have been living in that part of the world for centuries, as well.

It’s definitely complicated”

I agree that Israel should give up the lands seize in 1967 and they should not have not force the Palestinans away from their lands in the 1948 war. The Jews should also provide the same kind of services to the Palestians that they give to themselves such as lighting, roads, electricity, an education, swinning pools, etc. I also think that the Jews had the right to establish their own state since they have been suffering too many perscutions in Europe for a long, long, long time, and being made a scapegoat anytime somethings goes wrong.

You are right, that it is too complicated, and I might add no one will be happy no matter once a peace agreement is ever reach between the Jews and the Palestians.

G,
Your dead on to discribe class warfare against the working class by the rich and corporations. It is a form of hidden racism. Why is it hidden? Because the media is controlled by the rich and corporations. That includes FOX news who plays its viewers like the fools they are by convincing them that the rich and corporations are their friend and it’s the “nasty” progressives who are trying to take away “their” country and their lily white way of life.

G wrote:

“You are right, that it is too complicated, and I might add no one will be happy no matter once a peace agreement is ever reach between the Jews and the Palestians”

I agree. A Middle East peace agreement is like the passage of any progressive/liberal legislation in this country. From the time it is passed the right wing fights to get it overturned.

Thank you for your remarks, Colleen. I want to add one more thing. Mike was always trying to convince the people in the Southern states that voting for conservatives Republicans and/or conservatives Democrats would be cutting their own throats on ecomonic, social, and political issues. Mike, Bobby, Ross Perot, the ACLU, the ACORN organization, and other people and organizations have been giving the people of the South pre-Pearl Harbor like warning signs; however, the people refuse to listen for a variety of reasons for years.

With the oil spill now happening, how many of these folks will now change their viewpoints and mobilizes to get rid of the corporate lobbyists and corrupt politicans at the city, county, state, and federal level? If I was in Mike’s shoes, I would be so tempted to tell the people of the South a big fat “I told you so.” Sorry, if I feel that way; however, I feel that they had it coming to them.

G,
I see what your saying…I’ve heard other people, my husband included, that’s what these Red States get for voting Republican and against their own best interests. Look what happened to ACORN….the organization who helps people just like them bit cheered on the guy dressed like a pimp for showing very edited video tape and lying about ACORN. Rachel and Jim Hightower went into great detail how ACORN was destroyed by lies and FOX news. Now they will never be able to help the poor again. See what I mean? You bet a big “I told you so.”

Thank you for providing a way to link to the interview so that I can direct White Nationalists to listen and not have to come directly here. This is my last exchange with Garfield and I am posting it here.

I wish all here a wonderful day and David I really thank you again because you don’t know how much this interview helped me to regain my spirit to keep on fighting when I was feeling discouraged and like my life had been a total failure.

God Bless you
Chrisy

chrisy58 Says:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V6sWEl6ZFI

Once you get there, I hope you can listen to part two. It is a historic interview and I encourage you as a well educated man to listen to.

Garfield, I would hope that you White Nationalists would really listen with an open mind and heart. I know you love your family and want your children to have a better life. You guys never think of Jewish children and the quality of their life.

I do not agree with you as you do not agree with me. We might even be fighting against each other, but I still love and care for your children as I love all children in the world. I don’t want any children to suffer and Progressives don’t want Arab children to suffer, but you White Nationalists along with the radical Muslims who want to see Israel destroyed to not care about the future for Jewish children. You don’t want real peace you only want to see the destruction of Israel because your HATE is blinding you. There can be no real and lasting peace until your side agrees that Israel has the right to exist.

You and your White Nationalists like to say that the United States is hated and attacked because of our support for Israel. There is some truth, but it is also more complicated than that. I as an American am glad that the United States supports and defends Israel’s right to exist and live in peace in the middle east and should not have to fear because there are people in the world that want to see Israel and the Jewish people destroyed off the face of the earth.

The Holocaust is past and yes, I think the to much time and energy is spent on the past and not enough focus is placed on the current threat that faces Israel, The United States, and the Jewish and American people. The Man (The President of Iran) that many of you White Nationalists support, approve and talk to and give advice to is not a man of peace and good will. He is a man who because of hate is spreading that hate and together with White Nationalists who share his goal will cause much suffering and I believe is an evil man.

If God is love, than hate is from the evil one. White Nationalism is not about love but hate. No matter how much you try and twist it and fool people to think it is about love; those of us who grew up in that twisted poison playground because our parents or one of our parents is White Nationalists and filled with hate toward others who are different or believe different and are one of the few who see through the lies know it is truly about hate. I don’t hate anyone, but White Nationalists do.

The radical Muslims that you White Nationalists support also do not show the world that they are a people who love others and want peace. How does one find a peaceful solution where all the people in the Middle East live in peace when the other side wants to see you destroyed off the face of the earth and kill you because of your religious faith? These evil men deny women human rights, murder Christians, Jews, Americans and others of the West, journalists, and will not stop until they have achieved their goal of a Middle East without Israel and a world without Jews and the United States.

Garfield, yesterday when I couldn’t post the link directly for you and your fellow White Nationalists to listen to I did mention that I had suggested you come and listen to the interview. I also posted our exchange. If you decide to comment, you know you will most likely be treated like before. Is what I do, is I post but don’t interact to much but post my story so that Progressives will WAKE UP and START FIGHTING. If you have any comments to me, please make them here as I won’t respond to you on Ring of Fire as I don’t interact because I don’t want to get into the drama. People can say whatever they want about me there and I do not respond.

Garfield, as you may have read I am dealing with some health problems and I don’t have time to waste on drama, drama, drama. My work is to important to me to waste whatever time I have left on the world in fighting with those who do not understand my mission. As long as I am alive to fight I will work to WAKE PROGRESSIVE MEN UP TO THE TRUTH THAT WHITE NATIONALISM IS NO JOKE and IF THEY WANT THEIR CHILDREN AND ALL THE CHILDREN OF THE WORLD INCLUDING JEWISH CHILDREN TO HAVE A WORLD OF PEACE AND SAFETY THEY MUST START TO GET REAL AND NOT CONTINUE TO DENY THE THREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also know that people don’t understand why I enjoy talking to you or you enjoy talking to me, but you and I both know that it is IMPORTANT to know what the other side is thinking. What better way than talking to each other and sharing with each other. I respect you and others like Don Black who are dedicated to what you believe. One can respect someone from the other side if you think they have courage, and have passion and try to be fair and are willing to seek a solution so that all people can live in peace. I know some will never understand our relationship and how I can enjoy our conversations, have real and caring feelings for your family and children and wanting them to have a good life, or even respect you for your intelligence and thoughts. You and Don Black or one of the few people who I respect. There are others but I will not name them. I name Don Black because he is public and one of the top leaders. It does not mean Garfield that you and I are buddies who are going to meet in real life and share a beer among friends. It does not mean I will invite you to my house for dinner and a night of fun and fellowship. It does mean that by talking to each other that there is a link open for us to reason and hopefully find a solution so that there can be real peace in the world. If we burn all bridges with the enemy than there is no way a reasonable solution can be found that will ensure that all the children in the world, who we should love and put before us adults can be explored. I do hope you will keep this link open with me.

Chrisy

Uncle Bob, you sound about as annoying as every other relative I appear to be burdened with. (Cripes! What in Tarnation did I DO in those myriad past lives o’ mine)????

Anyway, Colleen warned me about you. She said to pay you no mind.

- Anyway, I’m going to do as Colleen suggests and ignore you… Except, I can’t help but add my own suggestion to You, offered with perhaps a touch of irony and a dash of ill will, but Nothing to get too excited about, Unc, so Here it is:

As all we all know, one can either curse the darkenss (moi, in this instance, according to you) OR light a candle (you could elect to comment, yourself, “objectively”, as to the *topic at hand* – the Elie Wiesel interview, in this instance).

Mara,
Thanks for that article. It lays it out. Because it was short and concise anyone can see what made the Holocaust different. But you have a point– human suffering is human suffering re: the drones Obama keeps sending over to Afghanistan and killing civilians.

I just wanted to share with you all that Stormfront linked up to my thread on David Duke running in 2012. This should be interesting if they accept my offer to discuss this on my blog.

http://chrisy58.wordpress.com/2010/05/06/9213/

This is my latest comment to David Duke:

chrisy58 Says:
I am glad to see Stormfront linked to my thread. Stormfronters feel welcome to come and make comments. As Garfield, can tell you I do try and be fair and am not your typical anti. I do have a few simple rules such as we show respect to each other and we talk to each other and not at each other. I welcome the discussion because if you have read my thread you know that I would welcome his run as I think it would be a historic election. I am not afraid of his runnig nor do I think David is a joke!

This was posted today by David Duke and I am posting it here. Because I want to comment. I can’t post on SF so if you want to comment on anything I have said, you must talk to me here. I even posted a few links already by one Duke supporter. Please treat me with the same respect that I will treat you and we will have no problems discussing this exiting topic for both of us, though for very different reasons.

Today, 09:41 AM #125 (permalink)
David Duke
Lifetime
“Friend of Stormfront”
Sustaining Member

Join Date: May 2004
Location: Mandeville, Louisiana
Posts: 2,036
Re: Will Dr. David Duke Run for President? — by John Darty

——————————————————————————–

If I decide to run for President of the United States, I can legally run and get on the ballot. The constitution sets the only requirements for Federal Offices including President. The only requirement is a native born American citizen of the proper age. Period!

I could run. James Trafficant could run. The law is completely clear on the matter. Ask any constitutional lawyer.

Our founding fathers were very conscious of our freedoms. They were used to the British tyrants arresting and imprisoning people in an attempt to politically suppress. Many of our Founding Fathers themselves were charged with various crimes against the British government.

So, the last comment was completely erroneous.

I can run and qualify for the ballot if I wish and I have the support to run a credible campaign.

Time will tell if I formally enter the race.
__________________

The reason why David Duke said the last comment was erroneous is because of this comment:

Red Baron
“Friend of Stormfront”
Sustaining Member

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mpls. Mn
Posts: 4,136
Re: Will Dr. David Duke Run for President? — by John Darty

——————————————————————————–

David Duke was railroaded and convicted of a felony for tax evasion, so unfortunately he cannot be president unless that conviction is overturned.
—————————————————-

David Duke is right he can run for federal office. I know my dad would still curse mayor Curley who was once the mayor of Boston. He was elected while he was still in jail. This was way before I was born as I wasn’t born until 1958. If mayor Curley could be re-elected than David Duke can surely run.

” Our founding fathers were very conscious of our freedoms. They were used to the British tyrants arresting and imprisoning people in an attempt to politically suppress. Many of our Founding Fathers themselves were charged with various crimes against the British government.” (David Duke)

You are correct. Our Founding Fathers if they had lost the American Revolution would have been hung for treason. The people in Boston were tired of being treated the way they were and in many ways the Revolution bore fruit because of Boston and our standing up to the British tyrants who were arresting and imprisonoing people in an attempt to politically suppress the anger that people felt.

In one of your comments you stated ” The first government of the United States was led by men who did not trust government! ” (David Duke, 1st comment on this thread)

They were not against government but were against having a King and a class system. They wanted a system where all men were free.

From the very beginning even before we won our Indepence the North and the South had a very different vision of what form of government our new nation would take. The North wanted a strong federalist form of government. John Adams a great man from Massachusetts where my roots and family is from believed in a strong federalist government and weaker state government. He felt that we needed to have a strong federal government and be one union. The South who had great statesmen like Thomas Jefferson of Virginia wanted a stronger state government and said at one point that states had the right to succeed from the union if they pushed states to hard to do what they were against doing.

John Adams and Thomas Jefferson who became good friends while both in Europe, had a very different vision for this country and didn’t speak to each other for many years. Their campaign reflected their differences. It was also the first time Political parties really came into play. Thomas Jefferson considered himself a strong Republican because he didn’t want a strong federal force telling the states what to do. Adams was a federalist who believed that the United States had to be one union with a strong federal government to hold us all together.

Even today in 2010 we are still debating federalism vs State Rights and who should be stronger. Some would still like to succeed from the United States.

David, we need a government of some form and can’t do away with all government. No form of government would be a disaster. So to say that our Founding Fathers were against government and that is why they fought the American Revolution is twisting the facts to suit your anti government stand that you feel toward our government of the United States.

” I can run and qualify for the ballot if I wish and I have the support to run a credible campaign.

Time will tell if I formally enter the race. ” (David Duke says)

Yes, you can run and qualify and can run a very credible campaign if you wish too. You have a strong base of support and you could gain the support of the tea party movement people if you are 1. lucky 2. Run the best campaign of your life and 3. reign in the White Nationalists who by their actions and words of support for you drive the average American tea bagger away from you as their candidate quicker than you can say Jack Robinson. Can you reign White Nationalists who are extreme and like to go to rallies as crazy clowns who like to parade in nazi uniforms and white sheets who say they support your run? Will you get White Nationalists to listen to you and get them to understand what has to be done for you to develop that perfect storm of events that it will take for you to win? Can you reign in those White Nationalists who want to tie you to VNN and want a Duke/Miller ticket and who think you should mention people like George Lincoln Rockwell who was a nazi that the more extreme White Nationalists admire and consider a hero? Can you make your White Nationalist base understand that your best chance of gaining and keeping the support of the conservative Republican tea party base you need to win is to name Americans who the tea baggers admire and not who White Nationalist admire? Can you make your White Nationalist base understand and not do some stupid idiot stunt that is going to cause you to LOOSE all the support you GAINED in one second?

I have never said you are a joke. I have always said you are smart and one of the best debaters I have seen. I know you are intelligent and that you are one of the most shrewd political people I have ever met. I am sure you are asking yourself these and other questions before you decide to toss your hat into this political race.

I hope you do enter the race though for very different reasons as I think it would be historic and I would enjoy the passion and energy of having real debates on the issues. It would give me pleasure to help the right Progressive to run against you. If you decide to run it will be like Christmas morning to me, because it would bring life to the Progressive base, but at the same time the biggest risk is that they take you for granted as one big joke and don’t take you or your campaign seriously which we both know would be good for you and bad for Progressives.

Christine Cosser

Mara, thanks for the link about the concise article about the Holocaust. I agreed with you that human suffering is human suffering. All ethnic, racial, religious, and idealogy groups (with the exception of hard core, right wing conservatives in the USA) have been through suffering and we should not be competing to see who has been through the most suffering. We should be helping each other out. I have not heard the word “Tarnation” in a long time since the Western movies of the 40s, 50s, and 60s.

Uncle Bob, why don’t you tell the conservatives to present objective, logical, rational arguements that are base on truthful facts not the manipulated ones we have been getting for years such as “rich people and corporations pay more taxes than the rest of the country.” Hogwash!!! Thom Hartmann stated on the May 11, 2010 of his show that the rich people only pay 15% of taxes, and they pay no social security taxes. Mr. Hartmann stated that when the rich people and corporations pay 70 to 91 percent of the taxes 60 years ago, it created the largest middle class and kept CEO pay under control. Thanks to Reagan’s policies, the middle class pay more and rich class pay less. Uncle Bob, why don’t you tell the conservatives to get the facts straight. Oh Yeah, I just remember, if they got their economic number facts straight, we would not be in this economic mess. Unfortunately, the only books they keep straight is their own personal bank accounts, stocks, and pension funds.

G, excellent points.

Here’s some important information that counters the anti-Israel rhetoric:

http://www.aish.com/jw/me/92746669.html

UB, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. You can’t monopolize the conversation on this thread with “your own facts”. Maybe what I posted is something you don’t want to hear or read. Furthermore, you won’t silence me as another progressive Jewish advocate, nor will you silence G, Mara, Colleen, Mike, Bobby, David Bender, Elie Wiesel, or those who are in for the good fight against those who want to see others different from them eliminated.

Here’s a breakdown of the Goldstone Report:

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=118&x_article=1736

When it comes to hot-buttoned issues like the Middle East, both opinions, facts, and conflicting information can come from all sides. Therefore, comments will pour in continuously with such subjects.

Here is a letter where an IDF soldier speaks out:
http://blog.camera.org/archives/2009/01/post_45.html

Now, with the same time and energy the Palestinians use to blame Israel, it could have been used to build a more thriving Palestinian state, as stated by this IDF soldier.

Since people are entitled to their own opinions and not their own facts, I wouldn’t hold the Goldstone Report as “conclusive proof of Israel’s wrongdoing.”

I agreed with Uncle Bob on Palestine unable to gain self-sufficiency because of Israel’s actions. I read the book title Witness in Palesine by Anna Baltzer, and she also did a documentary film titled Life in Occupied Palestine. I saw the film on the Free Speech TV Channel. Very powerful, intelligent, and enlighting film. Highly recommend it!!!

I think the Palestinian leadership or Hamas has money somewhere in Swiss accounts that they usually use to fund weapons for rockets and suicide bomb vests. If only that same money were used to build upon more Palestinian infrastructure in either Gaza or the West Bank.

As for the blockades, that is a safety protocol to help prevent terrorism, where many terrorist attacks have been thwarted.

Maybe if the Palestinians, and especially Hamas can really prove they can recognize Israel’s right to exist and coexist side-by-side, then there should be grounds for peace. But, as it stands, Israel has offered Palestinians land more than a dozen times, but there has been consistent refusal in the Palestinian leadership. This all too often gets overlooked on what the root of the conflict really is, because Israel does make an effort to de-occupy land in Gaza and the West Bank.

Also, I know of many Jews whose families have been in the Middle East even before 1948.

It all depends on fight or flight between the Israelis and Palestinians for ways in which to achieve peace or at least normalcy.