Papantonio: Hillary Clinton in 2012?

First, I thought Mike was kicked off of FOX….He’s Baaaack! Which is good!

OK….this Monica is an idiot. Now to the subject at hand…will Hillary Clinton run in 2012? I’m with Mike here…I would NOT put it past Hillary to run. The Left (like myself) is very disappointed in Obama but Hillary is also a Centrist. But at this point, she’s looks like a more attractive alternative to Obama. Bill Clinton was a Centrist as well, but he always managed to stay in good graces with the Left(for the most part) Bill never blatantly dissed his base. Hillary can, as Mike said, run on the fact that the economy was in great shape the 8 years Bill was in…leaving office with a surplus. If I were Obama, I’d be looking over my shoulder.

…The villains in that video essentially symbolize the teabaggers and corporate thugs in America.

NR,
Where did you find this? I got your symbolic relation here. Geeze….I used to watch “Batman” growing up.

NR,
My husband, Scott, and I figured that was the case. LOL! Scott thought Yvonne Craig was kinds cute too! LOL! Did you ever see her in “In Like Flint” with James Coburn where she plays the Russian ballerina/spy? Scott’s just wondering.

Bill Clinton, if he were Prez today, would have the same troubles Obama is having w/the economy. Don’t forget: Bill was BEFORE the 8 HORRIBLE years of Bush.

That doesn’t mean I’m not unhappy w/Obama.

But Carville releasing those #s saying people think Obama is a Socialist? If I heard that right? What is the Point????

If Carville wants to take Obama on over BP, fine, let him.

This is the guy who attended Rush Limbaugh’s wedding, as I recall.

I don’t friggin forget sh*t like that. Limbaugh is the enemy. You don’t go fraternizing around w/the mofo enemy, for God’s sake!!!!

Obama is Not a socialist!!!

If he was, I think Progressives would like him a lot more.

I found a very incisive article, that breaks it all down.

Here are a few quotes:

“Jobs are not only not coming back. They are disappearing.
And people are justifiably frightened that they will be next.”

(Obama could start a major jobs program, similar to the Great Depression, when Serious $$$ was spent to do so, according to Norman Goldmn)

“All he [Obama] had to do was demonstrate sincerity in pursuit of bipartisanship, and when the Republicans refused to play ball, more in sorrow than in anger, shove the Democratic agenda down their throat.”

“Boy was I wrong. It turns out that Obama, advised primarily by Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod, was so committed to his strategy of bipartisan governance that he insisted on pursuing it, not only at the expense of his campaign promises, but also of his own (and his party’s) popularity.”

“…resulted in legislation that however historic, was so watered down by compromise with corporate lobbyists that it pissed off almost everyone and satisfied pretty much nobody.”

(YUP).

“To be fair, this is how almost all Democrats have governed since the days when Joe McCarthy terrorized the Truman administration.”

(That’s why I’m NOT voting for Hilary)

“Bill Clinton, who did not manage a fraction of what Obama accomplished in his first two years, saw his political fortunes saved by losing a midterm election and inviting voters to imagine what it would be like to be governed by fire-breathing Newt Gingrich and company.”

(There you go. It hurts like hell and it’s Frustrating, but we Have to go w/the Party of Least Evil, until/unless a 3rd party Progressive Prez candidate is Truly viable).

“For an irritable public, the Gulf Coast debacle was a reminder—horribly timed from Obama’s perspective—that Big Business and Big Government are often a problem, not a solution.”

(The author use is, not was, for the Gulf Coast “debacle” – I call it a DISASTER – is Still going on)!!!!

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-07-17/obama-democrats-face-a-drubbing-this-fall/

I meant: those who suffered from the Exxon Valdez, 18 years ago, are Still sufferinig from it. The after-effects continue.

Then there are those 27000 wells in the ocean that Mike speaks of.

All of this gives me a horrible feeling. I feel like it’s a true rape of Mother Nature, these capped wells, pipes in the ocean, etc. It’s disgusting to me. It’s disgraceful.

The ugliness of our fossil fuel energy shows in just how it’s carried out, to extract it. It’s brutal, ugly, lethal, toxic and sickening to contemplate.

Colleen,

Those are all good points, of course. And I did notice an article in the Daily Beast about the abortion issue, although I have not read it.

Still, Michael Parenti calls Hilary Clinton a “corporatist” just like Obama.

I guess one has to chose their poison…..ah, um, I mean *president*…..

If I thought Hilary Clinton would do any better job than Obama, I *might* vote for her over him, but I don’t see that, as of yet. I see more of the same.

Comparing what Bill Clinton *did* to what Hilary Clinton *might do*, in a favorable light, is conjecture. Hilary strikes me as a war hawk, and I fear, in her attempt to prove just how tough she is, she might turn out to be even worse than Obama.

So, I’m not going to get all excited if Hilary were to run in 2012 – which is not likely – unless Obama REALLY tanks. People would just hate Hilary if she lost, and her chances for 2016 would be dashed.

Colleen, I have heard of “In Like Flint” and may’ve seen a few bits and pieces of it hear and there on Turner Classic Movies. I understand that it is a lot like Austin Powers.

As for the Clintons, I’ve seen at least one or more comments posted on Youtube where America could’ve stopped the presidency at Clinton, and not have such term limits similar to FDR…On a Facebook page that I joined, “Progress for a more perfect union,” there was at least one comment posted saying that what Obama is going thru with the right today, and most likely thru 2012 (and beyond if he’s re-elected) what Carter went thru in 1980. In Carter’s frank “Crisis of Confidence” speech in 1979, we never really had such a president to tell America to take a timeout and think. However, Carter is probably the most perplexed president we’ve had, where he was bluntly honest, yet inneffective since he failed to lead or America failed to follow. I’m wondering if Carter feels like telling America, “I told you so” when it comes to progress in energy policies and capitalism…As for BP, which Carter was trying to warn us about on oil spills and the need for more cleaner, renewable energy, I went out for a little bit tonight where I passed another BP station along the way. As I was driving to it, no one was there filling up their vehicles with gas, and on my way back, there appeared to be just one vehicle filling up on gas there. And still, NO BP protesters. I have yet to see BP protesters picketing a BP gas station in my area. But maybe if I do, I may want to join in if I have time (hopefully the cops wouldn’t arrest demontrators at a BP gas station and attempt to justify their actions saying that the protest was on “private property”, despite that freedom of speech could otherwise trump that – BTW, Colleen, speaking of freedom of speech, when you posted that video from Brasscheck.tv of that HS student who asked that GOP politician very direct questions on voting against education, I forgot to tell you that that looked like freedom of speech at one of its best moments, even though that politician could have shown at least some humility like Nixon did when Frost interviewed him). Now, G, when it comes to protesting, can the cops really arrest people demonstrating their 1st amendment rights as they claim they are being arrested for being on private property? Seems like cops almost always automatically assume that when there is a protest, they have “probable cause” to arrest such demonstrators for being on private property, probably as an excuse to incarcerate people who are expressing what would normally be their first amendment right.

This is as shallow as it gets, but one reason I will vote for Obama again, is because I Love Love LOVE Michelle Obama’s fashion sense (although – horribly enough – I find myself *almost* agreeing w/the likes of Glenn – puke! – Beck – on the fact that Michelle’s top for her tour of the Gulf region, wasn’t, ah, the Best choice in her closet that she could have gone with. it was white w/splotches of black or very dark blue and resembled, in That context, swirls of oil. I’m sure it was not deliberate, though).

http://mrs-o.org/newdata/?currentPage=3

I can’t help but think a woman w/such Superb, gorgeous, Beautiful Fashion sense – a woman who is Not a size Zero – a woman such as this has Got to have some good qualities, maybe more than we realize.

I know I’m opening myself up for a contemptuous attack on the ridiculousness of caring about fashion when jobs are being lost….

I agree w/that, btw!

But hell. I’d Still rather look at Michelle’s fashion sense than Hilary’s. Mike mentions Hil’s new haircut and softer style, but I’m not buying it. And yes. I think it matters – the visual perceptions we have of our leaders.

Michelle’s style, to me, is elegant, but not pure WASP, like Cindy McCain or that stepford wife, Laura Bush. Or even like Sarah Palin, the new, GOP stepford robot w/sass.

Jacqueline Kennedy’s style was beautiful, too, and Michelle is just as beautiful as Jackie was. I Truly hope Michelle can get beyond her conservative, corporate roots and truly live up to the potential that her beautiful unique clothes tell me she could have.

“What If the Tea Party Was Black?”

Mike, Bobby and David always talk about how racist the tea party is, but there’s lots of deniers in this warped world to protest that no, they are Not racist!

Well, what if the tea party WAS black? Maybe the govt. would, perhaps, crack down on them?

I think so:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtH7vH4yRcY

NR, as I pointed out earlier Bill Clinton was not perfect and made mistakes in his presidency, but one can’t overlook the fact that we had a surplus, people were working and he never put the rich people’s interests over the working man’s.

NR…totally–that was freedom of speech at it’s best when that HS student interviewed that GOP politician. He just left the room because he couldn’t handle it. That HS student was way too smart for him.

This country basically has become a right wing police state. Even more so under Obama. Rahm Emanuel has succeeded in morphing this administration into a right wing regime, reminiscent of Bush/Cheney. And I will NOT vote for this. I have mentioned I’m NOT voting in 2012 a few times already. The exception being if a TRUE progressive challenges Obama. I NEVER said that was Hillary Clinton. I mentioned my state’s senator, Russ Feingold, as a great alternative to this garbage.

NR,
If you want to protest at a BP gas station stay on a sidewalk next to where their pavement starts. Sidewalks are public property as they are one of the benefits of taxes. But police can still order you to move along and not block the sidewalk. Walk from end to end of the BP station’s sidewalk frontage then turn around and you can usually claim to police you aren’t blocking the sidewalk.
Private property rights unfortunately do supersede free speech the property owner disagrees with in content or presentation. A neighbor of my father’s was arrested for protesting the Iraq war at an army recruitment office in a shopping center or mall. The charges were dropped because the army recruitment office status as a government office (free speech allowed in government buildings) superseded the shopping center or mall owner’s speech limits.
There is a BP station near where I live that used to be an Amoco station until BP bought out Amoco. It hasn’t had any cars when I have walked past it at different times since the Deepwater Horizon well blowout and underwater dispersant slicks (what I call underwater oil plumes). A Texaco station across the street from it changed its gas supplier to Sunoco July 1. Now I don’t have to give my money to Chevron (owner of Texaco by merger) who destroyed the Ecuador forest although they are trying, by lawsuit, to shoot the messenger if not the message, with the lawsuit against the makers of “Crude the real price of oil” that required filmmakers to give Chevron the raw footage. Sept 5, 2009 Ring of Fire, I still haven’t deleted from my computer, had a segment interviewing the filmmakers. Although most of the money I spent at Texaco station was snack food purchases when I was hungry at night not gas. I found 20-30 cent/gallon cheaper gas closer to where I work.

I guess I’m going to vote in 2012. I’ll have to see who’s running – and what, if anything – they will do much differently than Obama.

I’m not any less upset over the many Obama compromises. The only difference is, now I can see that almost Anyone who gets in there will make as many and as big compromises. It may be in different areas, though.

But, overall, Eric Alterman, in hour 3 of yesterday’s RoF show, makes a good case as to why there is not much that Any president can do, at this point.

Eric Alterman said to Sam Seder: “Liberal reform is very difficult in this country and it has to happen piecemeal.”

I’m not happy about this anymore than Anyone Else is! But it does make sense to me. AND I hate it.

My main point is that I don’t see how Hilary Clinton will be much of a different president than Barack Obama.

Why? If one gives credence to what Eric Alterman points out there is a reason. Alterman says the system if broken in these 4 main areas:

1. The way govt. is set up – esp. how the Senate is, wherein 40% represents a majority
2. $$$ in politics
3. The media
4. the horrible legacy of the Bush admin.

That Last one, of course, is not something Bill Clinton had to deal with.

What has also changed me around, to *some* degree, is listening to radio talk show host Norman Goldman.

I mean NO disrespect to Ring of Fire, which is my Main Go-To Show, and That won’t change.

However. I was feeling stuck between how David Bender never never never criticizes Obama – and how Colleen, as commenter, always always always does.

Now, mind you – Both of them, imo, have many Valid Points, at least to my way of thinking.

We have Such a corrupt system. It’s really painful to face all this, too.

What I really Like about Norman Goldman, though, is This: he is NOT afraid to take on the Obama admin. and criticize it! Listening to him, I see the honest validity of those criticisms – and he gets a Lot of flak from Obama supporters and Dem loyalists.

However – he Also Wants to Support Obama and he definitely Defends the idea that Dems in the White House are ALWAYS going to be better than Republicans.

Norman Goldman has not shied away from direct criticism of Obama, so I feel I can trust him much more readily, when he Also defends the Dems.

Norman Goldman is so Out There w/his views that I feel I know how he comes across. He’s saying: Hey, it’s Wrong, but Here’s Why it’s Wrong and Here’s Why it needs to get Better and Can get better.

Eric Alterman does not concede the last point, much, except after 2012, if Obama is re-elected.

Well, this has given me some ease of mind. It helps me see where David Bender is coming from, and also helps me understand the same, of RFK jr. and Mike Papantonio.

Like I’ve already said, I’m a “swerver”. I go back-and-forth because I think many people have Many valid points.

“Don’t Fence Me In” is my motto, too, as far as my thinking goes. Not that anyone is trying to do that, but that’s just my default position.

And I honestly don’t think Hilary Clinton would be much of a Change over Barack Obama, but I do hope that there is a fear in Obama that she could oppose him, or some other viable candidate could. Such fear might galvanize him to do better.

I don’t know what to make of Barack Obama. He may be the Perfect guy for what we have now: a system teetering on the brink of collapse in so many major ways. Eric Alterman says he’s doing these half-measures to push through deals where and when he can.

That’s cold-comfort if you’ve lost your job. Norman Goldman demanded, on his last show: why doesn’t Obama create a Worker’s Program, like in the 30′s? They spend Millions, back then, to do that. Or even billions. I forget which. But they spent Massive amounts of $$$$ – esp. for back then!!!

My biggest fear is that it’s Not just who Obama surrounds himself with – as Mike says. It’s Himself, as well, that is as much a system player as Rahm Emanuel. I fear that Obama is a Corporatist through and through.
(I also fear this about Hilary – hence my comments about Her).

On the other hand, Norman Goldman says that he Likes Obama and Wants to support him. So, we will just have to keep seeing how his presidency evolve. In good and bad ways.

Already the fever of 2012 is upon US, though. THAT’S worrisome.

Colleen -

It’s interesting this person appears, just at this time.

you may be mad at Me, but keep in mind who the REAL ENEMY is, okay?

Anger comes and goes. I can shoot off my mouth, but I mean no harm.

UNLIKE others.

To Jon in MD—thanks for the tips on protesting at a BP gas station. Very good info. I’m also glad the BP station near you hasn’t had any cars since the disaster in the Gulf.

B Personage writes:

“All-

Censorship strikes again.

(It’s Not censorship, Ross. After all, people here are not visiting your your stupid sandwhich shop and telling You how to run it, now Do they? This site belongs to people who Don’t have to – News Flash – put up w/your Garbage. NO ONE OWES YOU ANYTHING, Dear. Isn’t that the far right Mantra you and your ilk are so fixated on? That No one is Owed anything by those in authority? Well, Apply it to yourself, Ross, as applies to this site).

I was unable to post under my old name. So much for libs being open minded!”

(No one EVER said “Libs” are open-minded to the Stupidity you spew out).

“I will get thru when I want to…If I have to set up 1,000 new email accounts…”

(Jesus H. Christ, Get a Life. You sound Completely Demented, you know that? A normal person does Not behave this way. I’m sure there are Tons of sites that you could go to, to get your nonsense across at. You only come here to be a torment, and these comments of yours illustrate that very succinctly. You really need help. You’re like the Mel Gibson of this site. Out of control and Nasty, to boot).

“If I have to change my name as many times…I will voice my opinion on this site!”

(THIS is your noble cause? – stating your opinion on this site? Well, guess what Ross? Freedom is not just Given to you. No – you have to EARN it. Isn’t That a far right talking point so beloved of folks just like You? You can’t come prancing in here like some demented sand-which avenger and just rub our noses in your gleeful hatred. Sorry, but there are RULES to abide by. You are just here to provoke and NO, NO ONE has to put up with that. You have Not be convincing in your Noble desire to just have a debate. You want to Attack because you HATE and are Obsessed by people like Mike, and giving us a hard time is how you can get back at him. My GOD. I HATE you friggin Stalkers!!!!).

Ah, Sorry I used all caps…

It’s not about dissent, as Farron stated. BP just wants to mess w/us – and get at Mike.

It’s pointless to try to debate such a hater. they Want to Hate. they Need to hate. it’s that simple – and that ugly – unfortunately. It’s completely different than people arguing/debating who are of strongly divergent views, but basically uphold humane values.

It should be seen but not heard with regards to civilians and police.

G,
Great points as usual!!! I loved the video “What if the Tea Party was Black?” Says it all.

So you’ve been booted off officer.com? That’s because they don’t want to hear the truth. As your post points out, notice how the cops never arrested tea baggers, even when they bought GUNS to town halls, but if it’s an anti-war protest, they are all over the people like stink on shit.

When I protested with Peace Action against the Iraq war in Chicago a few years back, there were cops everywhere!!! I’ve got the pics to prove it. When the march came to it’s end point, I turned around and saw the sea of cops. But it didn’t bother me. No way. I had a right to be there. I did some civil disopediance that day, but my husband discouraged it because he didn’t want to spend money bailing me out of jail. LOL!