When the first few Tea Parties started popping up across the country, they were nothing more than a fringe offshoot of the GOP. Unfortunately, Republican leaders decided to join forces with this fringe, pushing their party as far to the right as possible, and casting out any Republican politician who refused to pander to Party’s fringe. As a result, we’re left with a Republican Party that is so out of touch with society that they are doing serious harm to our country. Mike Papantonio discusses the GOP’s continuing crusade to purge the Party of its remaining moderate voices with John Nichols, Washington Correspondent for The Nation Magazine.
I’ll view and comment on this video sometime soon. For now, here’s a video of the “leadership” of the GOP, which sums up how more “moderate” Republicans are being shut out of the powerful influences with the current GOP and the status quo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omSqEwaO_X0
I would tell these moderate Republicans, this is your reward after supporting the party for the last 30 years, and how many of you pro-business people lost your job or your own business thanks to your blind support of no government regulation.
If moderate Republicans believe in the environment and civil rightts, they would have fought for better energy alternatives after the 1973 War when the Arab nations of OPEC put an embargo on us and fought against union busting and shipping jobs overseas.
European politicans have to form coalitions with other parties if they do not win by a landslide majority plus their government can be throw out of office by no confidence votes not only from their own party but also from the rest of various political parties as well too. Italy since the end of World War II has had a new government every year because of the above mention reasons.
In the movie, the Bridge over the River Kwai, the British Colonel made a remark about what he had done after building the bridge. I wonder if Republican Senator Barry Goldwater had not died in 1998 and lived another 12 more years would he had said the same thing after helping the Republican Party recapture all the 3 branches of government and see the far right wing purge the government of every moderate Republican, and Democrat even at the civil service level and destroy the standard of living that America had before Reagan came into office.
How long will it take for the Republican Party to disappear before America is destroy? Even then, the former members will create a new party with help from Corporate America.
I’m going to comment a bit on Hour 1 of the Podcast, with Mike P. and David B. going over the news. (I will also listen to hours 2 & 3, of course, and If I get time I will also post comments for the hours 2 & 3, as well).
Hour 1: Mike Papantonio – “the masses are friggin idiots” – I think that sums it up pretty succinctly, exactly what this Mosque deal is all about. As Mike also says:
“If you scare people badly enough, they’ll always move to the Conservative front”
“Fear is a visceral thing” (you don’t have to think). Mike on how the far right scares people.
Forgive me, please (as I love this show and EVERYONE on it) – but I feel Mike and David are doing some of that scaring, themselves, only it’s to Liberals, Progressives and other, sundry assorted Dems and so forth.
I feel as if criticizing Obama means that I, personally, am going to bring down the entire Dem establishment, come November. Of course, that’s not true, and even *my* ego is not so grand that I would or Could attribute such a thing to myself.
But, collectively, we who criticize are being held to account for the many failures of the Dems.
It’s not fair, you know.
If the Dem pols fail, it will be their own fault, and no one else’s.
David is correct and I totally support him and Mike on their observation that we are awash in a media environment that totally Distorts everything – and Naturally – to the far right goes this distortion, in support of the Elephant, Not Donkey.
I get that. I appreciate that.
But the way that Democrats needed/needs to fight this is not by trying to suppress dissenting voices. Such voices have Always been heard in politics, throughout ALL times, including, I daresay, times as dangerous as these ones.
If Obama would do his job *as he was ELECTED to do*, he’d have as much support as he could desire, and the distortions and lies of the far right would mean *nothing*, because the people – even if they are ignorant – know when Wall St. is ripping them off.
Jobs!!!!
Give the people jobs and you’ve got support.
Look, I’m no expert, and I would fail any voter test put to me.
Politics is very complicated. I know *nothing*, really, but I am Trying to learn.
David and Mike say that people Blame Obama for the 8 years of Bush – and that people Magically and Instantly EXPECT for things to be fixed.
But it’s not fair to say that all voters are that way.
When Progressives hear about how Obama gave away single payer and the public option, it sours them, as does hearing that Obama escalated AfghanistNam.
Please.
STOP blaming innocent people for the many Many failures of the Dems.
If we get even Worse, then it STILL won’t be *our* fault, it will be the fault of a political party that is almost as corrupt as the republicans in many ways.
What do you guys want us to do? Just shut up? You think that keeping silent will convince voters????
I don’t so, and I fear that we are all being set up as scape-goats for the Dems. It’s just not fair.
If the Dems *succeed* we must be silent, lest they fail.
If they *fail* then we are to blame.
This is nonsense. When are THEY – the Dems – going to STOP being Republican Lite?
Never?
Then don’t expect people to not be upset by this.
You can’t run on a campaign of change, honesty, doing things a new way – all that Obama did run on – and then become Bush in *many, though not every* way.
What would happen if Obama acted as radical as he seemed as Candidate Obama?
Is that even *possible*? Would he be killed by the powers that be?
I want to know. I am feeling that David and Mike speak down to their listeners when they counsel silence in the face of so much suffering.
I think what Really upsets me is being told that silence is the only option we have, if we want to support Obama/the Dems.
How do you expect Liberals to be silent? Only the far right plays that game. And I guess they are winning that game, for that very reason.
Why doesn’t Obama play a New game? He’s moving some pieces around, and YES, it Matters!!!! I am Not going to say Obama is the Same as Bush – or Worse.
But moving around some game pieces, while keeping to the Same Game – how is Obama NOT going to be OUTgamed by those who are True Masters of this particular deal – the republicans?
If we EVER get a president in office w/TRUE GUTS, it’s only going to come after much more suffering. People elected Obama because they were in pain. Now they are complacent and starting to think that the republicans weren’t so bad.
But just wait. Things Could get much worse – I Do agree w/Mike and David on this, although I hope Norman Goldman is correct, and the Dems won’t lose too much come November.
My point is that the people have Already shown faith in Obama by electing him, but they got a very center right guy, unfortunately. Since the country is skewing so far right, someone like Obama is not going to impress Anyone:
the right wants him MORE right (and of a different color)
the left wants him to be on Their side, for a change, but he’s not willing to go too far in That direction.
Blame Obama. He was the one who got all “hopey and changey” on us, to quote a complete imbecile, but she has a point. Out of the mouths of naves. Sometimes comes truth.
I meant: out of the mouths of Knaves.
When I hear Progressives like Mike and David and Randi Rhodes and Stephanie Miller say, in essence, shut UP, already, re: criticizing Obama, This is what I am really hearing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGGYznVqwko&feature=related
Well, I can’t do it.
I’m not a soldier. I can’t do that. You need to train up very young, impressionable men (mainly) for war.
I’m not a Christian. I’m “spiritual” which means I am not a slave to dogma. My mind belongs to *me* not the bible or any particular god.
Now, this may be a war, and if so, I know that I am on the side of *truth*.
My mind is Also not owned by any particular political party.
Sorry.
My mind belongs to ME. I won’t enslave it for *anyone*. Nope. Not Gonna do it!!!!
That song Does sound very nice, though, on the organ…..It’s Very inspiring, except, for me, it’s not inspiring me to go to church or just say supportive things about Obama or Nothing at all.
I am listening to this music, right now, and thinking: people have DIED for the Right to Say the Truth, as they Know it to be.
I am but only a small part of that proud tradition.
But I AM a part of it!!!!!
And with rights come Responsibilities. I know this.
That is why you will not hear me say – or write – that Obama is the Same as Bush, or Worse. But when he runs his presidency in Bushian ways, I feel it’s only prudent for that to be pointed out, by regular Americans and by Progressive Leaders, like Mike and David. If they want to Not do that, well, that’s *their* choice.
It’s not Everyone’s choice, though.
I STILL am a LOYAL FAN and SUPPORTER of this show and all those on it, though!!!!!
I hope that is Obvious and not even needed to be written, but still.
What Mike and Bobby do, is nothing short of NOBLE, and I include David Bender because he was chosen by them to be the third host, which speaks volumes (and for other reasons, as well)!
I simply reserve the right to disagree – Strongly – on certain, ongoing, controversial issues.
NR,
The clip you left was great….the size of it!
G,
Wow. I love when you post. You sure know your History and I agree with your points. While I also agree that pushing out moderate Republicans is not a good idea, what about getting rid of Blue Dog Dems? There is alot of talk here about what the Republican party does wrong and I agree that their party is too far right but how about we start talking about what the Dems do wrong? I think we need improvement in our own backyard. Look how the Dems have had control of all 3 branches of government and what have they really accomplished? Not a whole hell of alot. Shitty HCR, the wars are STILL going on, the handlng of the BP disaster and the crappy speech Obama gave recently in New Orleans (on that subject, I just got done watching Spike Lee’s “If God is Willing and Da Creek Don’t Rise” on HBO. Very real and sad all the problems that city and state have and nobody really cares….REAL people are in that documentary)I just caught on Huff Po that Wall Sreet may get their bonuses early with the impending end to the Bush tax cuts for the rich at the end of the year. But I personally believe that they will be extended…..Obama and the Dems will cave.
Mara,
I see you’ve got some strong feelings and opinions. I happen to agree with them. I am an Independent also. The reason I have Tom Barret’s and Russ Feingold’s bumper stickers on my car is because I feel as an Independent they will be better for my state. I go by their records and actions, not what party they belong to. I agree that we ALL must speak out when our president does wrong as well as right. I really wish I could say more good things about Obama but I can’t. In my eyes, this Bush’s third term. BTW, I’m to the point where there are not 2 political parties but one. They are all in on it together.
Colleen,
I agree 100% w/all you say, except the very last two sentences. I think Mike’s and David Bender’s (and Norman Goldman’s) assertion that we MUST NOT let the republicans gain power – and that there are REAL and VITAL differences between these 2 parties – is 100% valid.
So, that’s where I’m at.
Norman Goldman just said that Obama is “feeling the Institutional Weight” of the Presidential office” and I agree w/that, too.
It makes sense that Obama, as a candidate, could be more free w/what he says.
I don’t deny any of that. I can even try to emphasize.
I just don’t want to be shut down, nor do I want others to be shut down, who criticize this president, yet also support him.
Colleen, you can’t find anything to support w/Obama, which I respect, but for me, you see, that’s as austere a position as David takes.
I guess I can’t be that firm. I see good and bad w/the Obama admin. And I still have hope. Real hope, not sham hope. But am I angry, too? Of course I am!
I just saw Obama’s speech tonight. Rachel Maddow as well as Keith were shocked at how much praise he gave Bush on the Iraq war and he didn’t even get into the facts about how we got into that war…which was illegal….he never mentioned that it was a war of choice! Wow!
Mara,
BTW, I did say I was voting for 2 Democrats in November and why.
Colleen,
Yes you did, and I said that I respect where you are coming from. I also respect where David and Mike are coming from. I used the term “austere”, and this is what I mean:
Austere means “strict”. David has a strict sense of Not criticizing Pres. Obama, and I think you would agree that you are austere in your own way, as in not deviating from being critical of the president.
And I am Left, somewhere in the Middle of those 2 polarities. I have not made a secret of this. I think we Ought to be able to criticize the President, and I intend to continue that, because it’s the fair way to be.
On the other hand, to not make a distinction between Obama/The Dems & the Republicans is not where I can go. I agree w/Norman Goldman (I know mention him a lot here, I hope no one minds) – anyway I agree w/Norm Goldman that the republicans are completely crazy and completely dangerous.
So, it’s clear to me that of the 2 choices, which one to chose.
Whatever that means….
No, actually, I Know what it means.
It means accepting that we live in a very compromised world.
Mara,
All I know is that I see alot of Democrats just paying lip service to the working class. Too many of both parties are members of the rich elite who can’t feel OUR pain and everyday struggles. For me putting too much faith in the Democratic party as a whole sets me up for alot of disappointment and that’s why I know longer feel any passion for the political process because it’s always the little guys that wind getting shafted. The Dems have had alot of time to do some positive things for us and all we get are excuses. IMO, there’s only a small group of truly committed politicians to the plight of the working man/woman.
Colleen,
You’ve been involved in politics a Lot longer than I have – so I respect and appreciate where you are coming from! I really Do.
I’m just not even disagreeing w/You – but when you say this:
“BTW, I’m to the point where there are not 2 political parties but one. They are all in on it together.”
It worries me.
Not because I deny the Truth of it. I don’t. But like all truths, imo, few are 100% “pure” – and when we try to find the “pure” truth, we can go astray.
I don’t think Keith Olbermann or Michael Moore wants us Progressives either Not voting (in presidential elections; i Know you said you were voting in your state ones) OR voting for republicans.
Although, if a really Great republican should come along, then that’s different.
Matthew Filipowicz also said that “voting for Republicans or Not voting is Not an option” – for those committed to making their votes count, as much as possible for Progressive causes.
See, I fee that David Bender and Mike Papantonio, for the Best of reasons, are holding attitudes that might drive angry, yet committed Progressives like yourself, AWAY from the Dem party.
But I don’t agree that you are soured on politics.
I just think that politics breaks a person’s heart, again and AGAIN.
And that it just so difficult to deal with.
So, it’s no wonder people turn OFF from politics. It’s not that we are all stupid. Many people are – but some are so smart that they can see what’s going on and it makes them give up all hope.
So, David and Mike, for the Best of reasons, are feeding into that, imo.
and they really should reconsider what they are saying – and Stop blaming innocent voters (yes, by and large, we Are innocent of the abuses of our system) – anyway, Stop blaming up if the Dems don’t succeed.
Isn’t it smarter to not only acknowledge Our pain, but Yours as well, David and Mike?
The 2 parties are Too Much ALIKE and TOO Compromised.
Do NOT think I and others like me will not comment on this.
Even so, when it comes time to vote, I know that the Dems are the best ones.
Unless Alan Grayson runs.
Oh, wait, he’s a Dem, too and he IS running, but I meant for president.
If he became president, He would feel the “institutional weight” of the office too – but he’d fight harder against it, I think, than others.
Still, politics will break your heart. That’s what I’ve found.
But I Don’t like Absolutism! Not in David or Mike and Not in Progressives who completely turn their back on the Dems.
I also think we need to guard against Absolutist views re: President Barack Obama.
Some want to canonize him and some demonize him too much.
He’s a corporatist, but he’s also our president and we have to make our voices HEARD, as best we can, but if he screws up, that’s on him.
If I had that institutional weight on my shoulders, I don’t know what I’d do, but I think ANGER *IS* A GIFT, *if* used as a springboard to Moral Action in the world.
BTW, I can’t hear this song EVER too much, sooo…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1T8xgHdMEM
I really worry that someone will attempt to assassinate Pres. Obama, God Forbid, and so I pray for him and his family even though I am not a Christian, per se, and even though I am justifiably angry at the way politics are run, in this country of ours.
Mara,
Thanks for your kind response to me. You put into words exactly how I feel. Don’t worry–I’m not going to go all tea bagger on you or anything. I’m an Independent but I’ll still vote in the Presidential election if it is someone I can really get excited about–like Alan Grayson. I know Keith and Michael Moore would still want Progressives to vote Dem, but they get sad and angry like we do. Look at Michael Moore’s homepage in regards to his speech last night…can’t argue. You bet this is heartbreaking.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/
No, we can never hear enough of “Rage Against the Machine.”
Colleen,
I was thinking about this thread All day at work! I heard someone talk about a friend who listens to Fox 24/7! This person is convinced that Obama is “destroying the country”.
This person and their spouse are “educated people” (one Wonders was passes for “educated” these days, but suffice to say that Nut-Person has an advanced degree). No matter. They also have a bunker and tons of supplies.
People are going NUTS over Pres. Obama!!!
He’s Destroying the country!!!!????!!!
Sh*T!!! What about what Bush did????!!!!
But these Same people would find all kinds of excuses for Bush.
That is what is going on in this country, and Mike and David are correct- Many people feel this way!!!
Still, I admire freedom of thought, and it’s Not a luxury, it’s an American Value, and I don’t want to see it disappear, even though we are beset by tea baggers everywhere!
Try to keep the faith. As best you can, and as You define it. But never forget:
it’s CRA-RAZY out there!!!!!
(As for kindness, you show me the same! Is there anything wrong w/our exchanges re: political matters? I don’t Think so. We are trying to work all this out. It’s not an easy world, that’s for sure)!
Mara,
I’ll say that’s a NUT person! I swear, what you describe above sounds like the people I clean for….supposedly “educated people.” Exactly….what the hell does “educated” even mean anymore?!
Speaking of people going nuts—I thought about THIS today—how come these Bushies and these people bitching about the Mosque/Community Center don’t bitch about what they should….like “How come Bush never bought to justice the person/people that were responsible for 9/11?” “How come nothing is still built at Ground Zero?” etc. I love how they NEVER mention that stuff!
No, there is nothing wrong with our political exchanges. As you say, we are all trying to work this out and there is nothing easy about it.
Colleen writes:
“How come Bush never bought to justice the person/people that were responsible for 9/11?” “How come nothing is still built at Ground Zero?” etc. I love how they NEVER mention that stuff!”
WE know the answer to That, Colleen! Bush got a LOT of use out of Osama Bin Laden, didn’t he? He sure Did!!!!
Yeah, there are LOTS of “educated” people in the USA.
Must stand for:
U(bearably)
S(tupid)
A(sses)
NO, we can’t let THOSE people Decide who gets elected.
If Not voting FOR the Dems, Vote AGAINST the far right!!!!!
And, I still say: we have the right to express our pain and anger, as well. The Dems need to keep trying to Do Better.
Mara wrote:
“No, we can’t let THOSE people Decide who gets elected.
If Not voting FOR the Dems, Vote AGAINST the far right!!!!!
And, I still say: we have the right to express our pain and anger, as well. The Dems need to keep trying to Do Better.”
I totally agree!
PS…I like what you said USA stands for…LOL!
Colleen, you are right about getting rid of the Blue Dog Democrats particulary those guys who switch over to the Republican label after the 1994 election. I can’t recall when we have a Democratic majority in the Supreme Court. Its going to be a long time before any Republican judge dies or leaves for health reasons.
Yeah, Colleen, it never ceases to amaze me how “educated” people can be so stupid and dumb. I thought the purpose of an education was to free one’s mind – not enslaved it and use the education to enslave other people no matter what their educational background was.
G,
Exactly. The Supreme Court is tilted so far to the right it’s not funny. Nobody frees their mind anymore…they are happy to be let around by the nose by people like Beck and FOX news. Here’s a great article on that very topic I found this morning.
http://www.democrats.com/does-the-rise-of-glenn-beck-mean-that-it-can-happen-here